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2002 Oct 23 20:33

The following is an archive of a post made to our 'vox mailing list' by one of its subscribers.

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Re: [vox] Neither a rocker nor a mocker
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Re: [vox] Neither a rocker nor a mocker



begin Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> 
> Peter wrote:
> 
> > there is no mocking on vox.  for any reason. [...]
> 
> > ps- i am wearing my list manager hat right now.
> 
> He also wrote:
> 
> > if you mock anyone
> 
> This was in reply to my:
> 
> > mocking dumb-ass arguments others have posted (which I was and am).
> 
> I believe there to be a communications gap, here:  Peter was voicing one
> of the list's management requirements ("2. No flaming. "), as preluding
> mocking anyONE.  However, I had spoken of mocking ARGUMENTS.
> 
> Now, a lot of people seem to feel there's _no difference_; that, if I 
> dare to assert that something you said has a logical flaw or otherwise
> lacks merit, that it's right and proper for you to take extreme personal
> offence.  This view is especially popular in the more dippy subcultures
> of California.
> 
> In other parts of the world, such as, oh, logic classes and technical
> user groups, it's understood that the merits of assertions of fact can
> and should be debated independently of the speakers' own _personal_
> merits.

while this is true, LUGOD is not a logic or math class.  i don't even
consider us to be a pure technical group either.

btw, in the grad class on formal logic that i took, the professor didn't
make a distinction between mocking a person or a person's argument.
mocking was just something he didn't do.

but see below for my "mocking an opinion" vs "mocking a person".

> Anyhow, if Peter feels that no poster's assertion of fact may be
> made fun of, as such is deemed to constitute "flaming", then he need
> only clarify _on_ http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox that such
> is his stance, and I'll immediately and permanently sever membership on
> all mailing lists he administers.

lugod started out simply as a bunch of people who formed very close
friendships and shared a common interest.  the emphasis was on bonding
and friendship.  we've grown since those days, but i still think LUGOD
has a personal feel.

the reason why i won't make the distinction between mocking a person and
mocking a person's argument here is because for THIS venue, LUGOD, it
makes no difference.  we're all friends.  we need to respect each other
and treat each other as we would like to be treated ourself.

> No hard feelings; just my view that
> meaningful technical discussion cannot be conducted on such a forum.
 
no hard feelings at all.  i don't like ANYBODY quiting our lists, and
this definitely includes you.   but if that's the way you feel, perhaps
it may be for the best.

no opinion or argument, whether good, bad or otherwise, deserves to be
mocked.  if you think an opinion or argument is bad, then you give a
logical and respectful counter argument.

but under no circumstances does anyone's opinion deserve to be mocked.
especially about a topic as inane as "reply-to munging".  it just seems
like a silly topic to warrant such a heavy thread.

fwiw, if anybody mocked YOUR arguments, i'd react to them the same way i
reacted to you.  while you probably don't need or want this, many people
here do.  the LAST thing i want is for anyone on this mailing list to
feel like they need to censor themselves out of fear of being mocked.
this includes their arguments.

so now you know my opinion on the issue of mocking a person versus their
opinion or argument.  i would much rather you stayed.  but if you're not
happy with how i've decided to run these lists, i'd prefer if you left
rather than continue a thread about being polite to fellow list members.

pete

-- 
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