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2002 May 23 09:15

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Re: [vox] Lugod and public schools
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Re: [vox] Lugod and public schools

On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 12:53:11AM -0700, Steven Peck wrote:
> Between the OS and Office Suite, I think you are underestimating the
> licensing costs for MS software, even with the new licensing model, but
> I'd would have to spend some time looking up numbers and I don't have
> time right now :).  I'm also unsure that your costs estimates aren't
> missing the required day-to-day support costs of employees doing the
> normal stuff, add/delete users, checking logs, backups/restored
> verification, new user setup all the way to the desk, etc..... But I
> understand you  are looking at a support issue and numbers of the top of
> your head for your service etc....

Exactly; I'm aware that my numbers are a gross underestimate.  I'm trying
to give more of a feel of the difference in costs (susbstantial), rather
than just the overall costs.

> > It's an idea; it'll either run, or fall on its face.  Either 
> > way, I'll 
> > have fun, and I'll have an even longer resume, so it's not 
> > like it will 
> > hurt me...
> Sounds like fun

I'm having a blast. *grin*

> > Oh, and I'd say that running an MS shop with a thousand users 
> > (the average
> > school) would cost more than $260K a year.
> Probably, but I suspect that even a Linux shop for a thousand users
> would be more than that as well.  Just in salary for personal to handle
> day-to-day admin stuff not counting start of school year/end of school
> year....
> Link to TCO article I pulled from a site in Australia.  I think it's 4
> meg so be warned.  It's from Cybersource in Australia.
> www.blkmtn.org/linux_vs_windows_tco_comparison.pdf
> also
> http://www.linuxtoday.com.au/r/article/jsp/sid/454490
> Still, if you can pull it off, it'll probably be cheaper than an MS shop
> in the long run.  Things you can stress are freedom of worry from BSA
> audits.  


> > Don Werve <donw@examen.com> (Unix System Administrator)
> The biggest trials I suspect you will face;
> are the installed base of MS techs.  
> The lack of 'visibility' of a large workforce of Linux techs.  
> Public perception and the glacial slowness with which a bureaucracy such
> as a public school system changes course.  
> Budget cycle's.  
> Making sure you talk to the right people first. (Those who can get the
> money approved)
>  (I wonder if the IT folks are in their own department or part of
> facilities in school districts)

This is why I'm using Java; that way, for the users that already have an 
installed 2K base, they can continue to use their existing infrastructure,
while migrating to open applications for calendaring/scheduling and the
like.  I'm not just targeting this at schools; I'm also aiming for small
businesses; places that need good software, but can't afford (or won't pay
for) software at $1K+ a seat.

I've never understood the whole "pay-per-seat" licensing scheme; it's 
a pain to enforce, makes no sense from a pure economic standpoint, and 
tends to piss off customers.

> Things going for you;
> MS constantly changes licenses and costs.  
> The trial and MS's attitude.
> MS threats of audits for pocket change.
> BSA threat of audit.
> MS products security exploits (kids are imaginative.
> Linux's growing exposure in mainstream media.
> Licensing Costs.

Add training to that; I want to make sure that I emphasize that we'll be
capable of offering on-site workshops (both for schools and businesses), 
to help the users learn the new software.  Companies like that sort of

> You might not be charging enough for the schools to feel comfortable
> (sad but true).

That's where training and additional support costs come in; I can make
the argument that there aren't any "hidden" or misleading costs -- namely,
that if you don't want support, you don't pay for it; if you do, then 
you can.  Ditto for training, custom-built modules, etc.  The bill will
still be less than Microsoft, and the end user will get much more.

> No matter, I think that the momentum towards Linux is just now really
> starting.  A lot of aspects (GUI interfaces, large vender support -IBM,
> office Suites, etc) are really starting to mature and MS has some
> serious missteps lately that help to piss people off.

Bingo.  I'm thinking that the next three years will be a good time to be
doing migration work for small- to mid-sized companies, and the code I'm
working on will help with that.

> Have fun and I wish you luck.  
> -sp

Hey, at least that dual Athlon monster that I just purchased is tax-
deductable because of it. *grin*

Don Werve <donw@examen.com> (Unix System Administrator)

Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!
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