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RE: [vox] Lugod and public schools
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RE: [vox] Lugod and public schools



Stuff edited

> -----Original Message-----
> From: vox-admin@lists.lugod.org 
> [mailto:vox-admin@lists.lugod.org] On Behalf Of Don Werve
 
> > > Even at $5K a week, it's *still* cheaper than an MS kit; 
> look at the
> > > five-year cost of outfitting workstations with Windows, Office, 
> > > Exchange; each workstation has a yearly software cost of 
> about $300 
> > > (with discounts), plus server costs (about another $200 
> per user per 
> > > year), endless hardware upgrades to cope with load, and 
> the need to 
> > > have a horde of NT admins.  Comes to something like $140K a year 
> > > more than a comprable Linux solution.
> > 
> > $5K/week is roughly $260,000 per year.  Is that really 
> cheaper than an 
> > MS kit?  I ask honestly, since I've never maintained a full MS shop.
> 

> So instead of paying $BIGNUM up front for licensing costs, and then 
> worrying about finding admins, it'd be $350 for the site 
> license, plus 
> around $20-$30K to have faculty trained to use and run the software, 
> plus having *real engineers* help the people installing the 
> software, so it gets done right the first time.

There was a study in Australia that compared a Windows shop cost to a
potential Linux shop cost. Links below.

Gartner group studies tend to put at optimum 1 tech to 100 customer
base.  I personally have been in situations of 1 to 200 in a rapidly
growing company and I know of others with a 1 to 400 ratio (we feel
sorry for him).  Currently I am in a situation with 3 techs supported
250 people/desktops and 18 servers in 2 geographically separate
locations and am pretty much maxed out for 40 a hour work week.  (I am
the lead on site)  We are not responsible for network, just desktops and
servers, printers, office suite apps, email, HR enterprise program, etc.

Between the OS and Office Suite, I think you are underestimating the
licensing costs for MS software, even with the new licensing model, but
I'd would have to spend some time looking up numbers and I don't have
time right now :).  I'm also unsure that your costs estimates aren't
missing the required day-to-day support costs of employees doing the
normal stuff, add/delete users, checking logs, backups/restored
verification, new user setup all the way to the desk, etc..... But I
understand you  are looking at a support issue and numbers of the top of
your head for your service etc....

For MS support, it's $250/phone call for OS issues.  In many years in
the industry I have needed to make 3 calls, but I know other who have
made lot's more (it's an environment thing).  TechNet subscription is
$450/year (I think -MS Knowledge base on CD, free for Web).  Various
support levels start to really cost for VAR's, but the big corporations
don't care and pay it.

> 
> The update system I'm building is modular and automatic 
<..>
 
> It's an idea; it'll either run, or fall on its face.  Either 
> way, I'll 
> have fun, and I'll have an even longer resume, so it's not 
> like it will 
> hurt me...

Sounds like fun
> 
> Oh, and I'd say that running an MS shop with a thousand users 
> (the average
> school) would cost more than $260K a year.

Probably, but I suspect that even a Linux shop for a thousand users
would be more than that as well.  Just in salary for personal to handle
day-to-day admin stuff not counting start of school year/end of school
year....

Link to TCO article I pulled from a site in Australia.  I think it's 4
meg so be warned.  It's from Cybersource in Australia.
www.blkmtn.org/linux_vs_windows_tco_comparison.pdf

also
http://www.linuxtoday.com.au/r/article/jsp/sid/454490
Still, if you can pull it off, it'll probably be cheaper than an MS shop
in the long run.  Things you can stress are freedom of worry from BSA
audits.  

> Don Werve <donw@examen.com> (Unix System Administrator)

The biggest trials I suspect you will face;
are the installed base of MS techs.  
The lack of 'visibility' of a large workforce of Linux techs.  
Public perception and the glacial slowness with which a bureaucracy such
as a public school system changes course.  
Budget cycle's.  
Making sure you talk to the right people first. (Those who can get the
money approved)
 (I wonder if the IT folks are in their own department or part of
facilities in school districts)

Things going for you;
MS constantly changes licenses and costs.  
The trial and MS's attitude.
MS threats of audits for pocket change.
BSA threat of audit.
MS products security exploits (kids are imaginative.
Linux's growing exposure in mainstream media.
Licensing Costs.
You might not be charging enough for the schools to feel comfortable
(sad but true).

No matter, I think that the momentum towards Linux is just now really
starting.  A lot of aspects (GUI interfaces, large vender support -IBM,
office Suites, etc) are really starting to mature and MS has some
serious missteps lately that help to piss people off.


Have fun and I wish you luck.  
-sp

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